On October 26th, while I was fighting for my life in the hospital, my brother Luis and my daughter Caramen went to the police station to make an official interrogation hearings.
I didn't know about this interrogation hearings until March 2019, when I hired a lawyer.
The whole interrogation hearings of both persons is a big joke and full of lies.
Although I had the written proof that the interrogation hearings were full with lies and slander, after several Court Cases nothing was achieved.
This shows how slow and at what final result Court hearings and Justice are in Belgium.
Would have been far easier to shoot the sob a .45 between his eyes and maybespend a few weeks in a 5-star hotel (Belgian prison).
I would have been now a free and happy man.
This is the second part, the hearing of Trivino y Garcia Caramen.
Enjoy .....
The original file can be read here: "Interrogation of Trivino Y Garcia Caramen"
| Local police Limburg Region Capital Zwarte-Brugstraat 6, 3500 HASSELT Phone: 011/938 938 Fax: 011/938 939 |
Annex 01 / page 1 to PV no.: HA. -L1.021170/2018 (5907) dated. 26/10/2018 Initial PV: TG.42.L6022149/2018 |
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Category I - Witnesses and victims. EVERY QUESTION Capacity of the person concerned: Victim |
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Part 1 On October 26, 2018 at 10:53 AM We, Van Gucht Tamara, Chief inspector with police assistant specialty. Drafter of the Criminal Investigation Service of the Limburg Police Region Capital in 3500 HASSELT, before proceeding to the interrogation of: Name: Trivino y Garcia Caramen Born: 12/05/2002 in Nakhon Ratchasima/Thailand Living abroad: Bangkok/Thailand Nationality: Belgian Marital status: Unmarried Occupation: Unknown Identity document and no.: Unknown Tel.: Unknown Mobile : Unknown E-mail: Unknown The facts stated by the interrogated person give notice that the person concerned:
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Part 2 Hearings in Hasselt. Zwarte-Brugstraat 6 on October 26, 2018 at 10:58 a.m. Trivino y Garcia Caramen, who declares: In Thai, translated into Dutch for us by Chairang Amporn, sworn interpreter. The author asks the minor to introduce herself. Caramen says she is actually called “Samui”. The interrogator explains to Samui that the police of Genk have received some disturbing messages about her situation and that the author would like to know more about this. Samui will be informed about the legal provisions. |
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1. Samui says she is afraid of her daddy. On the pictures, you don't look to be afraid for your daddy. A few months later, at the court, you even jumped to your daddy, embraced him and started to cry. Was that out of fear for your "daddy"? You even wrote to your friends on Sep 16, 2018, 1:54 PM: "I'm just hope that my dad would come back to me from the hospital soon..." 20180916 surgery.html |
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2. The interrogator asks to explain why she is now in Belgium while she actually lives in Thailand. Samui replies that it is better here than in Thailand for her future. Yes, Belgium is better for your future. I fully agree. In 2 years time in Belgium, you committed already 2 suicide attempts. In 16 years in Thailand, there has been no suicide attempts. |
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3. She says she can learn better here, that there is more teaching. In Thailand you were 2nd out of 28 students while learning 2 WORLD LANGUAGES and 1 regional language. English, Chinese and Thai. Hardly to do better that that. ![]() On top of that, the other studies you accomplished in Thailand such as Equestrian, Guitar, Keyboard, Ukulele, Aikido, Thai Boxing, Diving, Golf, Crochet, Knitting and sewing, etc.
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4. The interrogator asks why she came to Belgium. Samui answers that her daddy had told her to come here. Her father has a heart disease and he has to take care of himself. She is now here with her uncle to whom she has also told things. Yes, I can imagine what you have been telling to your "Uncle" while I was in the hospital. A bunch of lies. |
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5. Samui says the school is better here. You said that already. I am not convinced of that, but it is your choice or shall we say: "The choice of the family to become a nurse". |
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6. She says her daddy's gone a little crazy. You did learn to say that from your uncle, Doctor Honoris Causa, Luis? The doctors at the hospital have a different opinion about that (20181016 escaping hell.html). Of course, that are only simple doctors who can not compete with the knowledge of a Doctor Honoris Causa Luis. |
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7. The interrogator asks to tell about her father's health problems. Her daddy has a disease, something with a bloodline, he had to have surgery. He doesn't talk much about that. However, her daddy's family says it's not that bad. Her daddy has gotten a little dramatic. Let me guess who "the family" is. Would that be your uncle, Doctor Honoris Causa, Luis and his wife "Lucrecia Borgia"? The "flip flopping" uncle who claims one minute that I am dying and the other minute that I am not sick? Care to read your own words again? "240 blood pressure, my father is dying" (20180807 from hospital to hospital.html) |
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8. However, her daddy's family says it's not that bad. Her daddy has gotten a little dramatic. Would that be the same "family" who declared at the school on October 24th: TRIVINO Y GARCIA Abelardo has medical problems. In Thailand no one can help him. TRIVINO Luis then let his brother come over to Belgium in the hope that they can help him in Belgium. TRIVINO Y GARCIA Abelardo has heart problems. Around his heart are 5 veins that need to be replaced. Doctors do not dare to start this well. In Genk they found a doctor who replaced 1 vein. The rest of the veins have yet to be done. Furthermore, TRIVINO Y GARCIA Abelardo has a shrunken kidney and they are still investigating whether he has Crohn's disease or cancer. His life expectations do not look positive. |
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9. The interrogator asks what she meant by “daddy's gone a little crazy". Samui says he's gone crazy here in Belgium. Samui is now also an expert in health problems. School seems to be indeed better in Belgium. In 2 weeks, Samui learnt to recognize a person who has gone crazy. |
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10. Samui was in the shower and she heard her daddy talking loudly. He started yelling. Samui had to pack quickly and then she hurried and bumped everywhere. So, because you start bumping everywhere, your daddy is crazy? |
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11. The family was angry with Daddy. He can yell very loudly.. Lucky, I was only "yelling". I could have hit you with a belt on your head ...' Or 10 times on your head... |
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12. Samui says that one morning her daddy made her come down and call the ambulance for him. I was not able to make call the ambulance myself? Strange. The family didn't want to do that. They told her daddy that he was not sick. That he was just pretending. I was only pretending, but Luis, the Doctor Honoris Causa, told everybody that I was dying. Can you make up your mind if I am "dying" or I am "just pretending"? From Dr. Honoris Causa Trivino Luis: TRIVINO Y GARCIA Abelardo has medical problems. TRIVINO Y GARCIA Abelardo has heart problems. Doctors do not dare to start this well. Furthermore, TRIVINO Y GARCIA Abelardo has a shrunken kidney and they are still investigating whether he has Crohn's disease or cancer. His life expectations do not look positive. |
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13. Then they started talking in Dutch, which Samui doesn't understand. Dad's family has told Samui that he has already been to 6 to 8 doctors but nothing is wrong. "Dad's family or Doctor Honoris Causa Trivino Luis"? If nothing is wrong, why is Doctor Honoris Causa, Trivino Luis saying that "His life expectations do not look positive." Looks like someone is seriously in need to have his head checked. Or check his BAD MOUTH? From: 20181016 Escaping hell.html
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15. The family has also said that Dad doesn't do what the doctors say. He needs to exercise more but daddy is lazy. He just lies on the sofa and Samui has to bring water for his medication. How about telling the interrogator that the "family" is not doing what the hospital said? Calling a home nursing 2 times per day to clean the wounds and help "Dad" with the recovery? How about telling the interrogator that the "family" is not doing what the hospital ordered and give "Dad" the full medication as ordered? Including the VITAL Clexanne blood thinners? Then I will not ask Samui to bring her "Dad" a glass of water whilst Samui is going to the kitchen. How outrageous from me to ask my daughter, Samui, at a time that I am recovering from a serious operation to bring me a glass of water!!!!! After taking care of "Samui" 16 years, how do I dare to ask "Samui" to bring me a glass of water!!! By the way, I was ordered by my Cardiolog in 1997, after my Heart failure to "QUIT ALL PHYSICAL EXERCISE" and to avoid any activity that would ask strenght from my Heart. But, of course, that was a conclusion from my Cardiolog and not from the Doctor Honoris Causa Luis, aka "the family". |
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16. When daddy went to the family toilet, he made the whole toilet dirty. He wanted to take the poop. The story of the "poop" with a new twist. Why is it so damned difficult to upheld a lie? "Daddy" is a "poop" collector. "Daddy" always collect the "poop" with his hands out of the toilet bowl when he goes to the toilet and cleans the floor with the "poop". Yes, "Daddy" is a "poop" lover. Do you imagine how "RIDICULOUS" you are when you tell such a story? |
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17. In Thailand he always makes the toilet very dirty. With pipi and stuff. Samui says she has to clean the toilet before she can use it. Pipi and "STUFF"? What "STUFF" do you mean? "Poop"? I can imagine that taking my own "POOP" out of the toilet bowl with my bare hands, without a bag or anything to hold it, and bring it to the kitchen to clean the floor makes a little bit dirty. Would like to see how "Daddy" was supposed to take the "Poop" out of the toilet in order to keep it. Can you simulate how this was supposed to be done? |
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18. Samui tells that at one point a friend of Papa's came and Papa cried very loudly. He wanted to get away from his brother's house. Samui says she didn't want to but Dad said he's in charge and she should listen. Samui couldn't open the car door. The family called her to go back inside. Dad told her to listen to him. At that moment she was afraid of Daddy. She went in anyway. Dad then said he was going to kill her and that she should listen to him. She is afraid of her daddy. He has stress and if they would have been in Thailand, he would have hit her on the head. She is very scared. In Thailand I would have hit you on the head? Seems like I hit you on the head many times. Or maybe not?
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19. The interrogator asks how many times daddy hit her on the head. Samui says she thinks that was twice. He hit her 8 times on her back. Once they went on a school trip and she had to choose a bag or a backpack. Samui couldn't make up her mind. Dad thought it was taking too long and got very angry. He then hit her 8 to 10 times on the head. Read #18 again and compare that to what you are telling now. |
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20. The interrogator asks clarification about the number of times that she was beaten, it concerns 8 to 10 incidents or about one incident in which she received 8 to 10 strokes? Samui clarifies that it was about 1 incident where she got 8 to 10 strokes. Read #18 again and compare that to what you are telling now. 1 incident with 8 to 10 strokes? And the 2 strokes on your head? |
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21. The interrogator asks to tell about the last incident in which she was beaten. Samui says she hasn't been hit that much lately because she's changed her behavior. He calls more now. He shouts that she must disappear from his life, that she is useless. Yes, ain't that the truth? You was a disaster in school; Your attitude was the worst I have ever seen; You never did help with the homework; Not even your own room; You were forging my signature on all your school documents; You had everything that another child of your age could only dream off but instead you would spend your days chatting on the computer/phone about how to "Masturbate with a pencil" or hanging out in the Mall's with the boy's like a town prostitute; etc. |
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22. The interrogator asks about her mother. Samui says she last saw her when she was in elementary school. She says her mom wanted to come to her after the divorce, but mom is scared of dad. Your mom better stay out of my house after she stole my personal belongings while being married and broke several times in my house after the divorce. Your mom has received a police order to stay away from my house. You can always go visit "your mom". But "your mom" want only come to visit you if she can get money from me. She says she loves her mama but she hurt her too. She tried to break her arm. Samui shows a scar at the height of her left elbow. Your mother did not "try" to break your arm, but she BROKE YOUR ARM AND SHE WANTED TO KILL YOU IN ORDER TO COLLECT THE INSURANCE MONEY!! Maybe I had better let her do that and we would have got 2 million Baht. Samui also had to steal from her mom in a restaurant because dad didn't cook. "Samui also had to steal from her mom in a restaurant because dad didn't cook?????????" If there would be a price for stupid answers, this would win the top price. Order a child to STEAL IN A RESTAURANT BECAUSE DADDY DID NOT COOK!!!!! HILARIOUS. "Mama" could not cook? |
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23. The interviewer asks to be told about this. She says her mom pulled her arm in such a way that it broke. When she fell on this elbow a few years later and went to the hospital in Bangkok, it turned out that there was an old fracture. As a result, she had to have surgery. When daddy confronted her mom about this, she admitted that she had done it. I brought Samui to the nearest hospital, St. Mary in Nakhon Ratchasima. NOT BANGKOK!!!! ![]() |
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24. The interrogator asks to describe how they live in Thailand. She says she lives in a small district where Dad rents a house. From Wikipedia: Nakhon Ratchasima
Mom and Dad used to argue a lot. Daddy said mommy didn't take good care of the child and mommy said she didn't get any money from daddy. Samui says her daddy bought her from her mother for 80000 bath. Now she lives alone with her daddy. I did not "buy" Samui. I paid to Samui's mother at the divorce a lump sum of 40,000 Baht for the divorce agreement (alimentation) as she had asked. Samui's mom was not able to take care of Samui if we would divorce and thus she asked me to take care of Samui. ![]() Translation: Date: January 24th, 2013 Today Mr. Abelardo Trivino y Garcia and Mrs. Kanoknuan Matiyapak came to register their divorce at Ban Thaen district office. In my presence, the male party actually paid to the female party the amount of 40,000 Baht (Forty Thousand Baht round). So I sign as proof: - Signature - Mr Thiraphong Phalanisong Deputy district chief, administrative officer, professional level Acting district chief of Ban Thaen Provided with official stamp |
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25. The interrogator asks if she sustained any injuries as a result of dad's blows. Samui says she had bruises. But nobody else could see these bruises. Not the school, not the hospital, nobody. |
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26. The interrogator says that her daddy wants to return to Thailand and that she has heard from Samui that she prefers to stay in Belgium. The interrogator asks why this is so. Samui replies that it is much better here. The school is better, she will find easier and better work here than in Thailand. I hope for Samui that she will find easier and better work in Belgium. But after spending almost 50 years in Belgium, I am pretty sure that she will have a lot of difficulties to find work in Belgium. Unless she is willing to go work as a cleaning woman or a toilet lady for a bottom wage. Of course, Samui can do like her sister did. Marry a stupid guy, let him make children and divorce. And then go live on welfare, topped with the monthly alimentation for the children. She says some of her friends sell their bodies. People in Belgium sell their body too. Many bars in Belgium. The oldest job. Samui says her daddy once saved her life. She says her mom had plans to kill her to get insurance money. Her daddy then told her not to do that. Daddy saved Samui's life a lot of times. When Samui was a baby and her "loving" mother wanted to kill her for the insurance money. When Samui was on holiday in Bali and the sea "wanted to eat her" (counter currents). When Samui was diving and Samui went to sit on the boat with her weights belt on and she fall into the sea. When Samui had Dengue fever and the teacher wanted to let her play in the band but I took Samui to the hospital just in time. Many times I was so stupid to save the life of that snake that chose to leave her daddy when he was fighting for his life in the hospital and go have a "good life" with her uncle who almost killed her father (and Samui too). |
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27. The interrogator asks Samui if she has understood correctly that daddy hit her on the head. 1 time with the belt and 2 times on the back. Samui doesn't understand the question well and the question is repeated. What? No, no, no .... 1 time with the belt, 8 to 10 strokes, 2 times on her head, and 1 times on her back. But ALL in 1 incident!!!! And Samui only had bruises ..... She replies that she hasn't been beaten since high school. So, I did not beat you for already 6 years but you feared that I would beat you on the head like I always do when you do something wrong???? Damned lies. So hard to remember. |
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28. The interrogator says she has heard that she sometimes has to take care of Dad. Samui says that she takes care of her daddy but that she is not forced to. Samui only was asked to help her daddy in Belgium, after her daddy came home from a heavy operation at the hospital. She replies that she had to help him put on his dressing gown. When he sat on the sofa during the day, she had to bring him water. Usually he just asks, once he called. Yes, daddy treated you as his "white slave". Forcing you to help daddy to put on his dressing gown because daddy could not do that with his big wound on his left side. How did I dare to ask you, "my white slave", to do such things after helping you 16 years with making your pony tail every day, making your bath ready every day; making your clothes ready every day, cleaning you room and making up your bed every day, being "YOUR SLAVE" every day ... ![]() Daddy's family says she is still too small to take care of him. 16 year is too small to help your sick daddy? Many girls, a lot younger than you are helping their parents when they are sick. And not only in Thailand, but everywhere in the world. I don't understand 1 thing. According to Luis and Mina, aka "the family" you are too small to help your daddy with helping him with his dressing gown or bring him a glass of water. But you are big enough to clean their whole house. How is that possible? ![]() Dad says she's big enough for this. Samui shows her cell phone. She shows messages from her daddy who tells her not to listen to Luis. Daddy knows what he is talking about. Luis KILLED his own son, Kim. ![]() Luis KILLED our younger brother Manuel. Luis almost killed me by refusing me the necessary medical help and the necessary medication. You tried to commit suicide because of Luis.
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29. The interrogator asks Samui what exactly "taking care of daddy" means. Samui tells her she had to turn on the light for him, go get water, straighten him out of the sofa. Help him get dressed and stuff. She did these things for him here in Belgium after his surgery. Let's see: - You only "took care of daddy" AFTER THE SURGERY. - I came back home from the hospital on October 12th (20181012 going home.html). - On October 19th, early in the morning, Luis brought me back to the hospital (20181016 escaping hell.html). So, you took care of me from October 12th to October 18th, or 6 days!!! Well, I guess that taking care of your daddy 6 days after daddy took care of you 16 years would be too much. Or like your sister Tamara said, "You can not expect that a child would take care of you (6 days) because you took care of her (16 years). By the way, did you maybe help me in those 6 days to take my poop out of the bowl and use it to clean the floor? |
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30. The interrogator asks how that was in Thailand. Samui replies that she had to clean up inside and outside the house, do the dishes, help clean, and do some of the laundry. You never cleaned up inside or outside the house. I started to ask you at the age of 12 years to clean your own room. But even that was too much for you. You was too busy chatting on your phone with your friends. You even went so far to write on your homework that you were helping your daddy with the home chores and forged my signature!!! ![]() At the age of 12, I asked you to dry the dishes (I did wash them). Drying dishes for 2 people is asking too much from you? According to your uncle (the family) and your sister Tamara, it is asking too much. But cleaning the house from your uncle is OK. What a load of bullocks. The laundry was done by a machine. You only needed to hang YOUR OWN wash to dry. School uniforms were washed and ironed by the laundry company. I even brought every week your Aikido outfit and your horse riding clothes (trousers) to the laundry shop. But I guess that your uncle and your sister Tamara will disagree with me. |
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31. The interrogator asks what she should do for daddy if he is sick. She says she helps him get dressed and other thingstoo. In the 16 years we lived in Thailand, you NEVER NEEDED TO HELP DADDY GET DRESSED OR "OTHER THINGS". Daddy was capable of doing that himself. |
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32. The interrogator refers to the fact that she said earlier that daddy calls and threatens her. The interrogator asks whether this has happened recently. Samui says her daddy said 2 weeks ago that he wanted to kill her. He also berates her. Well, usually, when I see snake, I kill it. You behaved like a real snake in the 6 days that your daddy was trying to recover at home. |
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33. The interrogator refers to the fact that Samui, when asked why she wanted to stay in Belgium, answered that friends sell their bodies. The interrogator asks to be told about this. She says she can not tell it for sure, but she knows that in Thailand you can easily earn money by selling your body. No need to go to Thailand to sell your body. Plenty of bars where you can sell your body in Belgium as well. Even in the town of your uncle, there are some bars where you can sell your body. Where you live in Thailand, there are no bars. ➞ huisjesvanplezier.com Someone she knows has HIV and she's looked it up and knows that one gets it by having sex. She is afraid of this. Sure, you should be afraid of having sex... Specially at your age. But you are not afraid of sex, ain't you. Finding my postbox outside every day filled with papers of boys who want to have sex with you. ![]() Or chatting with girls about "how to fuck a pencil". |
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34. The interrogator asks why she is afraid of this According to Samui , life is hard in Thailand. There is little work. Who gave you that knowledge about Thailand? Your uncle Luis, the Thai-basher who calls all Thais "THAIDIOTS"? ![]() Thailand has more industry and less unemployment as Belgium. Look in Wikipedia. Her mother also first worked as a farmer, but then went to work as a dancer in a bar in Pattaya. Samui's mother NEVER worked as a dancer in a bar. Anyway, she did not had a model to be a dancer in a bar. Samui's mother went to work as a server in a restaurant/bar. Samui's mother was a RICE FARMER, and rice farmers are only allowed to have 2 crops per year. Sometimes even not more than 1 crop a year. The time between crops is filled with jobs as a server in a restaurant or a bar. The girls/woman who are working in bars as a dancer or a Go-Go girl, are girls who have no job at all and don't want to work. Before critising somebody or a country, learn a little bit about that country. Thais are not "THAIDIOTS". Samui says she's afraid she'll have to make a decision like that too. Why? Is Samui all of the sudden afraid from sex? The Samui whose father needs to pull every day papers with "Samui Sex" out of the postbox? The Samui who spends her days chatting with other girls about "Masturbate with a pencil"? She has also heard that people here, when they are older, get a pension. In Thailand you have to work until you die. Really? Or is that again the wisdom of the Thai basher, your uncle LUIS and his "THAIDIOTS"? In Thailand, a citizen can retire at the age of 60 years. ➞ Retirement laws in Thailand "Under Thai Labour Protection Act, employers can force their employees to retire at the age set out in work regulations, internal policies, or employment agreements. However, if a retirement age is not stipulated anywhere, the statutory retirement age is 60, and the employee must inform the employer of his intention to retire. The employee’s retirement will become effective 30 days after the date on which the employee informs his employer." In Belgium, the age of retirement now is 67 years for man and 65 years for woman. But this requirement will increase in the next years. |
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35. The interrogator asks how her school career in Thailand will continue. Samui says she can only continue in Languages, only English and Thai. She doesn't think she will find work. Samui had already several job offers while she was still in high school (16 years old). - Samui was offered a job at the Chevrolet dealer to receive the foreign guests who did not speak Thai and also the phone Helpline for the foreigners. - Samui was offered a job as a Public-Relation at the hospital St. Mary where her task would mainly be to handle the communication between staff and foreigners. - Samui was offered a job at the University where she would help the Art teacher with the English language documents and teaching students. - Besides these offers, Samui did already teach Aikido and played music in bands. - Samui was also making an income on the sale of drawings and making drawings/movies for private users. - Samui was supposed to go for the "Teacher Certificate" as a diver when she would be 18 years old and with that certificate she could go work as a diver or start her own diving company. |
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36. The interrogator asks about her father's health condition. She says that daddy himself told her that he is seriously ill. Needing an urgent surgery for a Cardiac Aneurysma is being seriously ill. Off course, the opinion of Doctor Honoris Causa, Trivino Luis, is completely different and I am only "being dramatic". But a few days ago, while talking to the police at the school, Doctor Honoris Causa, Trivino Luis, claimed that "His life expectations do not look positive." Difficult to decide if I am ill or not or difficult to keep up a lie. He took her hand and said "I can't anymore, I'm dying". Dad then called everyone and started crying. He then also called her eldest sister. Lucky for me, most people I called started to call "the family (aka Trivino Luis)" out of bed in the middle of the night and asked what was going on in that Dungeon. So, early in the morning, "the family (aka Trivino Luis)" decided to bring me back to the hospital where the doctors said that I had an infection (my blood was already infected for 66%) and I needed some urgent interventions. (20181016 escaping hell.html). |
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37. The interrogator asks who that sister is. Samui says her father used to have a house and a family in Belgium. Her uncle told her that she has 2 sisters and that daddy left them on the street and took everything with him. The mother of Tamara en Melissa, your sisters, has a different opinion on this. Maybe she is gone crazy too and forgot what really happened according to "the family (aka Trivino Luis)".
The interrogation is interrupted for consultation in the control room from 12.29 to 12.31. |
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38. The interrogator asks what she meant when she stated that she had to help daddy get dressed and “everything”. She replies that she had to help him put on his dressing gown. When he sat on the sofa during the day, she had to bring him water. Usually he just asks, once he called. - You only "took care of daddy" AFTER THE SURGERY. - I came back home from the hospital on October 12th (20181012 going home.html). - On October 19th, early in the morning, Luis brought me back to the hospital (20181016 escaping hell.html). So, you took care of me from October 12th to October 18th, or 6 days!!! Well, I guess that taking care of your daddy 6 days after daddy took care of you 16 years would be too much. Or like your sister Tamara said, "You can not expect that a child would take care of you (6 days) because you took care of her (16 years). By the way, did you maybe help me in those 6 days to take my poop out of the bowl and use it to clean the floor? |
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39. The interrogator asks how she sees the future now that she wants to stay here and her father wants to return to Thailand. She says she's already thought a lot about it. She is worried about her daddy but the family says daddy can take care of himself Worried about your daddy? You was NEVER worried about me. Only your chat friends and your school friends. But NEVER worried about me. I should stop calling you a snake. I am insulting the snakes by comparing them to you. Wish you good luck with your "future" in Belgium. But with already 2 suicide attempt in 3 years, I fear that your future will be very short. The interrogation will end on 26/10/2018 at 12:39 pm. |
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